Am I A Narcissist?
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In this episode of 'Bossing Up, Overcoming OCD,' Erin Davis discusses why success at work doesn't always translate to success in romantic relationships. She explains the puzzling disconnects high-achieving women often experience when they excel professionally but struggle with relationship insecurities. Erin uses the example of a high-powered CFO, Melissa, to illustrate how professional skills can be transferred to personal life. The episode covers how to identify confidence gaps and provides practical strategies to build relationship confidence. Erin also introduces her group coaching program, 'Obsessed: Love More,' designed to help professional women bridge this gap and achieve balance in their personal and professional lives.
00:00 Introduction and Welcome
00:45 Understanding the Confidence Gap
02:53 Professional vs. Personal Confidence
04:28 Strategies for Bridging the Gap
06:48 Melissa's Transformation
08:27 Actionable Tips and Tools
11:53 Final Thoughts and Invitation
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*This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
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Narcissicm with Carla Litto
Erin H. Davis: [00:00:00] All right, bossing up. Overcoming OCD listeners today. I have a very special guest, Ms. Carla Lito, and she is a licensed and marriage and family therapist who specializes in relationships, not only your romantic relationships, but those. Toxic dynamics in your relationships. So she helps her patients break free from all of the nonsense.
She has a tell it like it is approach. She helps clients spot red flags, avoid emotional traps and outsmart manipulative partners. She's the author of Outsmarting Egomaniacs, how to Respond to Narcissist and Master Manipulators. That sounds so exciting. This is a practical guide for anyone looking to protect themselves from gaslighting emotional abuse and relationship scams. And you guys, the psychological cons we see in TV dramas, they're happening in real life every single day. So Carla, thank you so much for being here. It's such a [00:01:00] privilege.
Carla Litto: Thank you for having me on your show.
Erin H. Davis: Yeah. So , what inspired you to write a book?
Carla Litto: First I've always wanted to write a book even before I became a therapist. But, as I was developing my expertise in this area and seeing more and more clients who are struggling with someone in their lives who meets. The description of narcissistic personality disorder, just narcissistic traits.
I realized, oh, there's a book in there. This is a topic so many people want to explore and understand better. And I accumulated so many cases and stories and even my own personal experiences at times and just thought. I could write a book that helps more people than just the people who come to me for therapy sessions.
And honestly, it's the book I wish I could have read when I was younger before I became a therapist. Someone just telling it like it is and given it to you straight. And yeah, I was just excited to put a book out there that's easy to read and fun to read, but still has all the information that you need if [00:02:00] you're dealing with someone like this,
Erin H. Davis: awesome. Just like OCD, it seems like narcissist is one of those buzzwords people take it outta context. Do you see that?
Carla Litto: Absolutely. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Everyone's a narcissist. If someone hurt you or someone did something you don't like, they're a narcissist. It's no. Maybe they're just a jerk. Maybe they're not even a jerk. They just, let you down. Or yeah.
Erin H. Davis: Yeah. It seems like every divorce case, whoever, whether it's wife or husband, my ex is a narcissist. I'm like, okay.
Carla Litto: When you hear, when I hear that word sometimes it even even makes me think like. Someone in this couple might be a narcissist, and now I'm not sure which one it is because narcissists are often projecting narcissism and they're always projecting onto their partner or the person that they're and conflict with.
Erin H. Davis: Wow.
Carla Litto: Who knows who the narcissist is anymore.
Erin H. Davis: And now statistically narcissism is more common in men, right?
Carla Litto: Statistically, supposedly, although I'm not sure if that's true. I just think that like it might be more easily identifiable in men or the obvious narcissism where, you know it's arrogance and grandiosity, you might see more in men. [00:03:00] Statistically yes. Although it's not clear,
Erin H. Davis: okay. my OCD patients, they're women, and part of their obsessions and their worries and their fears is that they're gonna become a narcissist, or that they are already, in fact a narcissist. So they do all these compulsions of did I ask them if they were okay? Did I text them back?
Like they're very much in their head about trying to not be perceived as a narcissist. And if they.
Carla Litto: Yes.
Erin H. Davis: Do anything, quote unquote selfish, they're in a tailspin. So with that being said, what are those genuine narcissistic traits
Carla Litto: I have a lot to say about what you just said because, okay, so first first off, if you're even questioning whether you're a narcissist or not, it most likely, or I could say without a sh, without a shred of a doubt, you are not a narcissist because narcissists never. Put that into question.
They don't they would never look at the, they don't self-reflect, and they're not trying to be a better human. They're just trying to look better. They're not trying to actually be better. So if you're really concerned about what kind of person you are, am I being thoughtful enough and all those things, you're not a narcissist.
I can tell you that right now.
Erin H. Davis: and [00:04:00] most of them, their friends are giving them that advice and. I completely agree. If you're worried about being a narcissist, obviously you're doing some insight and some
Carla Litto: So that's just the first thing that comes to mind when I hear this. Another thing that comes to mind is, look, OCD from what I, I, you know, as I understand it, is an anxiety disorder. It's classified as an anxiety disorder. So what's happening is you're having anxiety about yourself and you're, when you wonder, did I ask them enough questions? You're having anxiety about your social interaction. So this is, yes. This is OCD, this is social anxiety. People with narcissistic personality disorder don't have social anxiety. ' cause they don't care. They don't literally do not care how they come across.
In fact, the concern about how they come across is so non-existent that they have no awareness of how they come across because they don't care about how they come across. And so if anything, it's the. Opposite end of the spectrum of how am I being perceived? How am I being received? How is this person feeling?
What kind of experience am I giving other people? That is so other end of the [00:05:00] spectrum than narcissism. Yeah.
Erin H. Davis: That helps a lot because of course if these ladies care, they're not even gonna think, oh a narcissist, they're not gonna think twice is the way it sounds.
Carla Litto: They take what they need. They don't worry about was I thoughtful in this interaction and giving someone a good experience. They're thinking about, I'm taking what I need and I'm gonna justify why I need it now. I care how I look. So I have a whole justification on. Why I deserve these things that I'm taking, stealing, robbing, whatever.
But they don't care how they leave people feeling in their wake.
Erin H. Davis: Wow.
Carla Litto: So that's a big distinction. And the other reason that I think people with OCD might. Be preoccupied with, find themselves preoccupied with narcissist is my behavior narciss, am I narcissistic because of my behaviors? If that thought process is going on.
The other thing that comes to mind for me, and I mentioned this in one of the chapters in my book, there's the control factor and in my chapter on, I describe different types of [00:06:00] narcissists and one of them is the control freak. One of them is the control freak.
Narcissists are very controlling. Now obviously with OCD there's a control element, but it's a different kind of control and we have to make the distinction between power, hungry control and the kind of control that is coping with anxiety. So one of the ways that people with anxiety and OCD cope with OCD as being an anxiety disorder, one of the ways you cope with anxiety is to try to control events.
So it's like I am. Preoccupied with what's happening in the future. I'm scared of what's going to happen. What is, what can I control? What can I control so that I am not feeling like this outcome is out of my control? And that's a very different type of control than. What narcissists do it's important to make that distinction between wanting to have power over other people and wanting to control situations and events in order to regulate your anxiety.
Erin H. Davis: Completely agree. So with the different types of [00:07:00] narcissism, does this kind of relate back to what they're needing and that's how you formulated their themes or
Carla Litto: Oh the,
Erin H. Davis: of narcissists?
Carla Litto: yeah. And they're not even types of narcissists really there, but I did create different like archetypes to make it as I was trying to make it as. Easy as possible for a reader who knows nothing about psychology or whatever to just understand the book. I wanted them to be able to immediately identify their experience.
And I explained like we're not putting people in boxes and the person you're dealing with might meet might look like all these people and you have a very disturbed person on your hands in that case. But maybe you're like, you know what, I'm dealing with a control freak, or I'm dealing with a drama queen, or, and so he's a womanizer, but he is not all these other things.
So he is probably not a narcissist, but he is a womanizer. I wanted people to be able to just immediately connect to their experience and have a chapter that's this is exactly what's happening to me and here's how I can deal with it. So that, that way we're not worried about like I explained in chapter one, we're not worrying about whether they're an actual narcissist or not, but if they're if they have narcissistic traits and they're hurting you, or their relationship is toxic, this is what's happening.
This is. Not healthy. It is abusive. And here's what you can do, because so many people today are so preoccupied with Vian narcissist is [00:08:00] this narcissism? And I think it matters less if they're an actual narcissist and more well, are they doing these things well, okay, so what do you wanna do about it?
If they're doing those things, what boundaries can
Erin H. Davis: what are the strategies? Because just having the label is not gonna help you have a healthier relationship.
Carla Litto: Right. Exactly .
Erin H. Davis: In Your book, you're trying to empower the reader to use some strategies or take action or help
Carla Litto: Yeah.
Erin H. Davis: in some way.
Carla Litto: And it's not. Arguing and engaging and getting pull pulled into the ring, with the narcissist, where then they just blast you with more manipulation tactics. That's one important piece. But also setting boundaries and boundaries don't obviously work very well with narcissists.
We'll make that clear, but as I explain later in the book, this is your. Journey to self-empowerment and to discovering like what you have control over and what you can do. And the more self-empowerment you have, and the more you have control over, the more you can see what's in front of you and [00:09:00] evaluate for yourself whether you wanna stay or go.
But if you're not. Taking control yourself of what you have control over. It's funny, we're talking about OCD and we're talking about control. And I keep stressing in the book, the only cont realistic form of control is self-control. You cannot control other people. And so when you stop trying to get 'em to change and you focus on what you can do, you see what's in front of you and you make a decision for yourself.
If this is something you wanna hang around and continue to accept or not, because ultimately that's all you have control over.
Erin H. Davis: Yeah. Even with the traits of narcissism, there is this spectrum, if you will, of like severity
Carla Litto: Absolutely. Yeah, because it's a personality disorder when it's a personality disorder because it's so severe that it's getting in the way of all of your ability to function and have relationships and. Some people just have these traits. If they're able to recognize it and try to improve and acknowledge, okay, sometimes I can be controlling or I guess I, I've been self-absorbed in the past and I wanna be better about that, or whatever it [00:10:00] is that they're working on.
That doesn't make them a narcissist. It makes them maybe emotionally immature and, and for whatever reason. We all have some of these traits at different times in our lives, especially earlier in our lives, while we're still growing.
Erin H. Davis: yes. I hear the teen years is like
Carla Litto: Oh, yeah.
Erin H. Davis: person, the peak of narcissistic tendencies
Carla Litto: yeah, I mean because like children and teenagers are by nature because of that stage of development are narcissistically oriented. And that's why we can't really diagnose one with a personality disorder until they're. Early to mid twenties when their brain is fully developed, because they're still, they're going to be egocentric, they're going to be all these things that might look a lot like narcissism, but people who aren't narcissists, they grow out of this, and people who are narcissists.
When you have a, the disorder, the personality disorder, not only do you not grow out of it, but it gets increasingly worse.
Erin H. Davis: Wow.
Yikes.
Carla Litto: Yeah.
Erin H. Davis: Okay. Now, how do you explain gaslighting to maybe a new patient [00:11:00] that
Walks in, she has no idea. She has been gaslit in her relationship.
Carla Litto: Yeah, Yeah, that's a manipulation topic tactic that's been so popular and like people talking about a lot because it's so common. So what people I. What narcissists and manipulators do when you talk about your experience or lodge a complaint or make a criticism basically bring up anything that calls 'em into question they won't go there.
And so the way that they. Put it put it back on you, is to shame you for even bringing it up or tell you that your ex what you experienced, saw or heard is not true. So that way you start to question yourself and it becomes this crazy making experience of who's the crazy one? I thought he was crazy.
Maybe I'm crazy. And you start to question yourself.
Erin H. Davis: Makes you second guess your reality.
Carla Litto: And they make you feel so stupid and shameful for bringing it up because they don't wanna be questioned. And so anytime you feel like someone will not take in your experience or listen to your feelings [00:12:00] at all, and gets mad or defensive or shuts you down, when you bring anything up that shines a light on them.
That's an indication that you're dealing with someone narcissistic.
Erin H. Davis: Oh wow. Yeah.
Are those strategies that you recommend for her this situation?
Carla Litto: Yeah.
Erin H. Davis: Okay.
I think this was all about someone's just own past. history and they had attachment issues. Actually, before I get into that, have you noticed that with a narcissistic person, they typically have a codependent partner.
Carla Litto: Yes, that's the most. That is probably the most common dynamic as a narcissist with a codependent caretaker empath. Yes.
Erin H. Davis: Yes. Okay, interesting. Now have you seen that Hulu documentary called The Devil in the Family?
Carla Litto: No, but that sounds like one I need to see. No.
Erin H. Davis: Okay, so Okay, so it's about Ruby Frankie, and
Carla Litto: Oh, the Ruby Frankie story I know all about. Okay. Okay. Yeah.
Erin H. Davis: Alright, well let's go with her example. So actually 'cause I think the husband sounded codependent I don't know. Obviously we can't diagnose people we haven't treated, but it seems like Ruby showed a lot of narcissistic traits.
What do you think?
Carla Litto: Yeah, I mean that level of abuse and.
Erin H. Davis: Yeah.
Carla Litto: The power over her children to the point of [00:13:00] starvation and physical harm. It was really sad. Yes. And And look like that's why, I say there are plenty of narcissistic women, there really are like, it's not just men. There are narcissistic women out there and they're hurting men.
And I've had a lot of male clients too coming in. Like really emotionally distressed over how a woman has completely turned his life upside down,
Erin H. Davis: yeah. So in the Frankie family, what could the husband have done to help, I don't know, protect the family from this abuse that eventually happened?
Carla Litto: Yeah.
You
Yeah, I don't I haven't seen this show and, and so I, so I, I followed the case on News Nation. The news report. You know, the news report. I love Ashley Banfield and her report on all the yeah,
Erin H. Davis: give you some context.
Carla Litto: yeah.
yeah.
Erin H. Davis: they're showing these clips and she's trying to do these like selfie things with
Talking as much and she's like getting all huffy puffy with him. And he was like, I don't know what you want from me. And this even happened with their oldest son where he is like talking, she does the huffy puffy stuff and he's even the kid was like, I don't know what to do. And I thought that was so bizarre, yet also interesting and sad and all the things the husband and the son were having the [00:14:00] same experience with her in those selfie video moments. Then the husband's like, you know, she had the camera all the time. I was uncomfortable with it and doesn't sound like he ever,
Carla Litto: They had no voice. They had no voice. They were just following her command, and it sounds like they understood that if they didn't follow her command, that there was a price to pay, that there the punishment was severe, that the easiest thing to do is to just go along with her crazy program. Now that's very typical in narcissistic relationship.
And narcissistic families where the narcissist is leading some kind of crazy operation that everybody has to participate in, and most people don't take a stand because it just feels like it's easier to just just go along than protest and pay a higher price. What they don't realize is that every time you acquiesce to somebody like this, they become more [00:15:00] entitled.
In their power, and they do more and more. And so you're giving them permission to take more and more control over you and invade your boundaries more and more. So that's why it's to set your boundaries from the start, because if you tolerate a lot
of nonsense and then later you're trying to set boundaries and stick up for yourself you've already established a relational history of this is what you're allowed to do to me. And it's a lot harder now to enforce that dynamic, this new dynamic of now you can't, the narcissist doesn't understand that they always could and they wanna keep being able to do that.
Erin H. Davis: Yeah. There was a social worker involved,
I believe she was also a narcissist, and the two of them paired up together. Oh my gosh. It was
Carla Litto: Oh, that lady who was advising her to do all this abusive stuff. Yeah.
Erin H. Davis: But the final straw was Ruby told the husband that they needed to separate and to not contact her, nor the kids until she said so. Yeah.
Carla Litto: you imagine? So now the kids are alone with the abuser and he followed along with this. Wow.
Erin H. Davis: And so that's when things really went downhill and got really bad. Now, it was probably really bad behind the scenes and off camera anyway, but yeah, it
was such a disturbing, I.
Carla Litto: It [00:16:00] looks incriminating for him that he's tolerating, allowing all this, but also when you look at abuse male or female, and it looks more confusing and hard to believe when the female is the perpetrator. But in reality, this is what abusive situations look like, where someone is completely stripped of their voice, they feel totally powerless, and they just don't know how to go up against the narcissist because they know that.
It. It's a battle you just won't win,
Erin H. Davis: in this, let's say in that type of dynamic, so toxic, the other person's very narcissistic, how does the victim find their voice or start to feel confident enough
Carla Litto: Yeah.
Erin H. Davis: about it?
Carla Litto: Yeah, there are a lot of layers here because you have a legal system too, and children and all that stuff. But in general, you I keep stressing non-combat firmness in my book because when you set your boundary, if you sound emotional, if you are yelling, if you are hysterical or you're crying, they're gonna point to you.
As the crazy person, look at you. You're a mess or you're out of control, or this is why, nobody likes [00:17:00] you. Or this, you're your power is sometimes your silence. That's your power. But sometimes when you're standing up for yourself, your power is your. You're not getting rattled, right?
Because they wanna see you work up a sweat, they wanna push your buttons. The whole, they want to engage with you, they wanna fight with you and find your weakness and use that against you. And so you just calmly, firmly state your boundary. No, I'm not going to leave this house and separate myself from the children.
Or, and in a situation like that, you have to get. The court involved, this is a legal, custody is a legal matter. But whatever it is, you, you state your, this is what, you know what I'll allow, this is what I'll do. I won't do calmly, and this enrages the narcissist, of course.
But the thing with boundaries is that. When you set a boundary, you are telling someone what you need. You're not controlling anybody. So with narcissists it's like it's like this control, it's this power struggle of you're gonna do what I say, no I won't. Or you're gonna do it right. But you are not trying to get the narcissist to do anything.
When you're setting a boundary, you are simply saying what you will or won't do. And then they have a set of choices. They can respect that or not. And if they don't [00:18:00] respect it, now you have a new set of choices, which is, then I'm not gonna put up with this and I'll go, right? So everybody always has a choice every step of the way, but you need to state what you need calmly and firmly without letting the narcissist see you working up a sweat.
Because once you're emotional, that's when they have more control over you.
Erin H. Davis: Yes you've become vulnerable and they are gonna capitalize on that.
Reminds me of just being emotionally dysregulated. Like we don't make the best decisions when we're in that fight or flight mode.
Carla Litto: right
Erin H. Davis: I bet it takes lot of these victims practice
Carla Litto: Yeah.
Erin H. Davis: therapy and then just rehearsing and trying to get the confidence up.
Carla Litto: I say it like it's easy
Erin H. Davis: Yeah. Yeah. It must feel incredibly uncomfortable, you know, to step into that space of setting a boundary with a narcissist when you probably haven't done it up to that point.
Carla Litto: They make threats. One of the things I recommend, let them make their threat. Just don't look shaken by their threat. Just say, okay, go ahead and do that. That's on you. If that's what you think is the right thing to do. You go and do [00:19:00] that? Well, I'm gonna tell the kids that you're, okay, you want to start children and turn them against the parents.
Let's see how that works out for you. Like that's, you wanna hurt. You're not hurting me, you're hurting the kids, but go ahead, let's watch you do that. You know, So you don't look moved by their threats.
That kind of strips away their power. Narcissists make more threats than they actually,
Erin H. Davis: More bark than bite.
Carla Litto: yes.
Yes, and I, I shouldn't say that casually because of course there are some really disturbed narcissists out there who do actually carry it, do horrible things, but a lot.
Erin H. Davis: and intimidate
Carla Litto: but a lot of them make threats. I'm gonna sue you, or I'm gonna tell this person this or that. And it's okay, why don't you go ahead and do that.
And if you feel good about yourself, you know when you go to bed at night, good for you, go ahead. That's the best way to handle it. You go. You go. You go ahead. See how it feels, that's the person you wanna be. Go ahead.
Erin H. Davis: Because it really is about how they look. And a true narcissist does care how they come across?
To believe them and like them, and
Carla Litto: Yes. That's other advice that I give. And I have that also in the book. Sometimes you have to press their image button and just remind them of how something's gonna make them look. Because you can't, you can't get them to do anything. You can't [00:20:00] change, but sometimes you need them to do something, not do something or do something.
'cause it could cause damage, I'm gonna tell the kids, you're a horrible mother. It's okay, you're free to do whatever you want. Let me remind you that when parents talk badly of other parents, it makes the kids not like the parent who's doing the shit talking. Just saying. But go ahead.
Go ahead. It's gonna make them think badly of you, but go ahead. Or, everybody knows these days that, co-parents have to talk nicely of their divorced, of their ex-partner. That's the way it goes because it, that's better for the kids. Everybody knows that. If you don't know that, go ahead and look it up.
And if you still wanna bad mouth me to the kids, after you've researched it, you go right ahead. But you remind them it's gonna make you look ugly. But do what you do. You go ahead. So you're never. Trying to control that, whether they're trying to control you or not, you're never trying to control them, and you remind them of the look,
Erin H. Davis: carla, this was a lot of fun. Very much appreciate your time and expertise. Are there any other words of wisdom or last pieces of advice you'd like to share with the listeners? I.
Carla Litto: I think we covered a lot. I can't think of any one thing right
Erin H. Davis: Okay. Okay. And where can they find your book or find you?
Carla Litto: Yeah, you can follow me on Instagram at Carla Lido Therapy. My website is carla lido [00:21:00] therapy.com. My book can be found everywhere books are sold. So wherever you order your books online it's on Amazon, Barnes and Noble. All the websites, sometimes it's even in, in the bookstore. Wherever you get your books, you should be able to find it.
Erin H. Davis: Awesome. Well, I will put it in the show notes for everybody and thank you. Thank you again.
Carla Litto: Thanks for having me. It was a pleasure.
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âś… Break free from the mental spiral so you can fully embrace the love you deserve. Download my 10 Tips for ROCD Checklist here.
✨ Feel deeply connected to your partner without overthinking every interaction. Join my Obsess Less, Love More program to create confidence in your relationship.
💫 Content is proudly sponsored by Thrizer. Sign up with this link or use code “Erin” to have your 3% credit card fees waived for the first $2,500 in charges!
➡️ Please rate the show: scroll to the bottom, tap to rate with five stars, & select "Write a Review" to let others know what you loved most about the podcast! ✍️ Thank you!!
*This podcast is for informational and educational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional medical or mental health advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
📌 Got questions about OCD, relationships, or mental health? Meet “Erin On Demand”—an AI version of me, trained with my expertise and available 24/7 for free.
