Surviving the Holidays with Grief and OCD
In this milestone 50th episode, I'm thrilled to be joined by Dr. Heather Taylor Sidey, a specialist in grief and the host of the 'Grief is the New Normal' podcast. We discuss the complexities of Relationship OCD and highlight strategies for managing grief during the holiday season.
Whether you've lost a loved one or are dealing with intrusive OCD thoughts, this episode provides practical advice and compassionate support. Dr. Taylor offers insights on setting boundaries, honoring your feelings, and how loved ones can offer meaningful support. We also explore her upcoming projects, including a book series on grief. Plus, I introduce a 12-week group coaching program for those grappling with relationship worries, set to launch in January 2025.
00:00 Raising Awareness About OCD
00:34 Special Guest: Dr. Heather Taylor on Grief
03:18 Understanding Grief During the Holidays
04:58 Navigating Grief with Flexibility and Support
13:42 Honoring Loved Ones and Personal Rituals
19:18 Supporting the Grieving: Actionable Steps
25:36 Message of Hope and Encouragement
27:47 Upcoming Events and Resources
29:56 Conclusion and Next Week's Preview
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[00:00:00] We're partnering with NoCD to raise awareness about OCD. OCD is more than what you see on TV and in the movies. Imagine having unwanted thoughts about your relationship stuck in your head all day, no matter how hard you try to make them go away. That's Relationship OCD. It comes with unrelenting, intrusive images, thoughts, and urges about your partner or loved one.
Breaking the OCD cycle takes effective treatment. Go to nocd. com to get evidence based treatment.
Erin: Today marks the 50th episode of the show and so glad to have you here today because .
I'm having a returning special guest, Dr. Heather Taylor Sidey, who is a specialist in grief. I'm bringing her back
as grief is such an important topic, especially around this time of year and during this season, whenever we are expected to be [00:01:00] all the things and in all the places, yet on the inside, you may not be feeling that. And so. This episode
is for you to give you that space and compassion to not put judgment on yourself for any of the feelings that you may be going through, whether you've lost a spouse, a child or pet.
I want you to know that I'm here for you and Dr. Heather Taylor and I had a very enlightening conversation and I hope you enjoy it as much as I did.
Erin: So [00:02:00] today my returning guest is Dr. Heather Taylor, PsyD. She is in the state of Washington and she is Leading the morning movement and has her own podcast called Greek is the new normal. Heather, would you like to do another like reintroduction about you and what you do and what you've been up to?
Heather: Oh, absolutely. So like Erin said, I'm Dr. Heather Taylor. I'm a licensed psychologist based out of Washington state. I'm also SIPAC certified, which means I can offer online telehealth services in the 42 states of the that are part of SIPAC which is a newer thing. That's really exciting just to be able to offer grief services nationally to those that are wanting that intensive support.
And yes, I am the host of the grief is the new normal podcast. We just had our 30th episode go up today, which is really exciting. And I co founded the morning movement, which is a modern grief education resource for building community and again, helping take a modern approach to grief [00:03:00] education and helping normalize talking about loss and how that looks across the spectrum.
Erin: Awesome. Yes. And I was particularly interested in chatting with you again because we, All have our own stories and none of us are immune to grief. Grief is such a common human experience. And as we're coming up to the holiday season, it can be tough for everybody, especially I can imagine if it's your first year without your loved ones.
I just thought it'd be super important for the listeners because I feel like On the bossing up overcoming OCD show. Like it's really all about educating people and giving them the tools and the resources to help make their lives better. And I really feel like you're a part of all of that too. So yeah, it's just wonderful.
And I love your mission and how you're [00:04:00] really changing things. With the conversation around grief, like truly,
Heather: thank you. Yeah. I, you know, I have my own personal experience with grief and I pursued a lot of education around it professionally so that there is that both. And like, I know what it's like to live it.
And I know what it's like to. To learn how to support it and we're in a very grief phobic society, very grief illiterate society. And yet it's the most universal lived experience. Like we will all experience both death and non death losses throughout our lifetime. And yet we don't know how to talk about it and there's still stigma attached to it, which just blows my mind.
So, yeah I feel honored to
Erin: Right, right. And the holidays, wouldn't you agree that's some of the most important Like troublesome times where people struggle a lot, they don't know what to do. It just feels [00:05:00] awkward or like, how do you recommend people face those times? Like what are some things that I don't know, either they can do, or maybe it's a mindset shift.
What are those supports that you recommend whenever they're facing grief around the holidays?
Heather: Yeah, that's a great question. I think we can't really control what's happening around us, right? Right. And so it's about working on what's going on inside of us and setting boundaries around what we need and working on reframes for ourselves.
So as we think about moving into this holiday season, giving yourself permission to do things differently, you know, we get so swept up in the traditions or this. need to celebrate or have the holidays the same way because that's how it's always felt when you're in that season of loss, it's going to feel different and whether it's been one year, one month, 10 years, we're still [00:06:00] missing our person being there because grief doesn't go away.
It just gets different. And so how do we approach the holidays where we can take care of ourselves? Honor that our needs might look different this year and people are potentially gonna be pretty festive and jolly around us, and we might want to. Um, I remember this one client, I was in like newer clinician and had recently lost their partner and they were going to the grocery store just to get groceries and it was around the holidays and you know, the checkout person, bless their heart was just so chipper and cheery and well, how are you this holiday season?
And my client was just very, Put off and upset and angry and hostile towards the checkout person. Cause it's like, not everyone is in that. cheery space. And I think and she showed up authentically, like she, she wasn't cheery. She, there wasn't much she was [00:07:00] celebrating that year. And so we worked on giving herself permission to just show up how she needed to in that space.
And for her, that was angry. She was angry in the holidays and didn't want to have the cheer and the joy, and that's okay. That doesn't mean just because you miss one year of getting into the holiday spirit, doesn't mean you can't go back in future years and make a different choice.
Erin: Yeah.
So it sounds like you're really honoring where you are at that time and to be flexible. You know, because that really, all of this shows up a lot in the OCD world. I mean, there's difficulty with the flexibility, there's difficulty with routines and rituals. And so this could, be super challenging either way you look at it, OCD or not.
So based upon what you're saying, it's like, go ahead and give yourself permission to just. Show up as your authentic, real self
Heather: tell those, you know, those support people, that close circle of support, like, Hey, [00:08:00] I'm not feeling jolly this year. So please don't take offense if I don't come to all of the traditions or the gatherings that I maybe have in the past.
Or Maybe as a family, we're going to, we're going to just fly away. We're going to go someplace else for this holiday season. Tropical go tropical. We don't want to be around those reminders. It's too painful this year. It's uncomfortable. We might rejoin the traditions the following year, but this year that just doesn't feel great.
Or maybe you don't decorate and that's okay too. Maybe you don't want to do anything peppermint related like that's okay too. Yes,
Erin: because it seems like those. Right there. It's again, helping you show up as your authentic self, but then to you're being clear with your support people because your support people don't know what to do either.
Right? So let's just kind of call out the elephant in the room, be clear [00:09:00] and communicate. And now It seems like some people, they may feel uncomfortable, right? Because OCD folks there, they get very uncomfortable with certain triggers and discomfort is not something that they want to deal with. But what would you say, like, it could be some advantages here, right?
Just to kind of push outside of our comfort zone a little bit, but to. Talk with our support folks and just say, like, like that example. Hey, I'm not feeling up to doing the three different meals in a day for Christmas Eve or, you know, the candlelight service that we go to every year. You know, I just think I'm going to turn it in early.
Yeah. What would be some benefits of just being transparent like that?
Heather: Well, I mean, grief is exhausting, right? Like it's physical, emotional, mental, social, spiritual, and behavioral. It impacts our entire being and it's [00:10:00] hard work. It's not a passive activity. And I think letting our people know that, you know, I don't have the capacity for that this year.
Because I'm just more tired than normal. And so I think knowing that we're so exhausted from grieving, that gives us permission to rest. And you know, when you think about I I have a very Scandinavian family and the concept of Higa where it's like you make every, it's a very Scandinavian concept and you make everything cozy and Soft and warm.
And you embrace the dark and have like the and it's supposed to be restorative in these winter months. And and I think that can be a gift when we're grieving, if we're able to apply that concept to help ourselves slow down instead of getting caught up in all of the shoulds. Of the holidays that, well, I should do this or I should do that, or I should be this way.
We need to stop shooting ourselves and maybe [00:11:00] work on slowing down and embracing that the soft, the slow, the rest that we maybe have in previous seasons
Erin: I told you my take on shoulds. No. What's your take on sheds? Shutters full.
Heather: Twitter is overflowing. I love it. I love it. That's so good. Yeah. I always say stop shitting yourself, but I got it. I'm going to have to tuck that one with the shutters. That's great. Yeah.
Erin: We all do
Heather: it. Absolutely.
Erin: Yeah. But totally. I love this perspective again Twitter. The transparency, the authenticity, and the flexibility. Yeah. Just because you don't go, you know, to one gathering this one time, this one year, doesn't mean it's going to be that way every year. Right. [00:12:00] That now that probably gives your clients hope too.
Like it's not going to be like this forever.
Heather: Right. Well, and because I mean, I know I said earlier, grief doesn't go away. It just gets different, which means our capacity to hold more than one thing is going to shift over time. You mentioned flexibility, like having that flexibility that, okay, this year we're not going to do the traditions or we're going to just go for one hour.
We're not going to stay for forever. All of the rituals and all the, you know, the hoopla, we're just going to go for a little bit and then we're going to, we're going to duck out. Cause that's the limit of my capacity, but having that flexibility to listen to what we need. And that is okay to do it different this year.
Cause that doesn't mean it's always going to be that way. You can make different choices next year. And I get that would be hard with an OCD and wanting the structure, the routine, the rhythm, the predictability. Yes. And that would be really challenging. And so working with your therapist to help develop [00:13:00] some distress tolerance and that cognitive flexibility to give yourself permission to grieve through the holiday season, instead of just trying to stuff it down, duck our heads through and muscle our way through it because you're going to be wrecked on the other end of it.
Totally.
Erin: Yeah. In the OCD work, we call it white knuckling. Yeah, we don't want to do that because I'm sure that doesn't give any healthy energy for anybody. You don't want to show up to that Christmas party, like as the Grinch.
Heather: I mean, unless it's a Grinch party.
Erin: Oh yeah, now there's that. Valid point, valid.
Yeah, so, but now this leads me to think too, are there things that if the person is open, you know, the grieving the survivor here, are there things they can do to honor their loved one that's passed? Or [00:14:00] do they have to do it the first year? Is it something that they can think about and build on? I don't know.
Like, Oh,
Heather: absolutely. It's that's a yes to both. If It feels overwhelming or funky thinking of what you could do to honor your loved one this year, then you don't have to do anything like you're still thinking about them. You're still feeling things about them that in and of itself is a testament to how much they matter.
And that they're still with you. So I don't, just because a ritual might seem nice from the outside. Again, you don't have to shoot yourself into doing something if it doesn't feel right for you. And then as far As other ways, you can do something in memory of them. Maybe you're making a donation in their name to, you know, a charity.
You can have an empty chair at the table for them where they would sit. You can light a candle. You can play. a song that makes you think of them. You can make an ornament. Yes. Memorial ornaments. Beautiful. [00:15:00] Lovely. There's a lot of I don't know. I don't know if this would vibe with your OCD crowd.
they make cremation jewelry. So jewelry that has the ashes of our loved ones in it. They make that. Absolutely. So they, you know, there's bracelets and necklaces and plaques and things that have a piece of your loved one in them.
Erin: I'm very surprised they make jewelry like that.
Heather: Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And it's very sanitary. Like it's very like, yeah.
Erin: Um, Whole new thing that I had no idea.
Heather: Yeah. Oh, I remember what I was gonna say. Okay. You can even send them a, like write them a holiday card or write them a letter updating them. You know, I so often with grief, we think we have to say this final goodbye and really it's how do we say hello again, you know, in a new way, maybe, you know, you want to update them about what's been going on and so you write them a Christmas letter or a card.
It doesn't, you know, it doesn't have to be a big thing. You can make it small.
Erin: That's so sweet and almost like a [00:16:00] journaling activity just to get that release, get it out there and don't underestimate the power of journaling and writing a card because it is so powerful to just Write and get it out.
Heather: Well, there's even, I mean, there's evidence based research that shows that power of kinesthetic expression, where we're removing the words from our head and putting it onto paper, not typing, but handwriting it out and it releases good brain chemicals and gives us an emotional release so that we don't feel like it's so stuck in us anymore because it's out, it's been externalized.
And there's research on, on that as a helpful practice.
Erin: Wow. That's great. [00:17:00] And so you've also been working on a piece of a book, right? That's so exciting.
Heather: Yeah. Are you
Erin: allowed to talk about the [00:18:00] book? Can we get like a sneak peek to what the book's about? Ooh, how fun.
Heather: I mean, I think so.
We're, we just started marketing for it. this past week, I think. So, the book is called stories of, and it's a three book series. So the first part is stories of child loss and I'm the clinical expert writing that chapter on unique aspects of grief when you have experienced the loss of a child.
And so that's coming out later this year.
Erin: Awesome. Well, that'll be exciting. Yeah. And congrats on that.
Heather: Yeah. I feel really honored getting to be part of that project. And it's a collaboration of, I think, 10 stories from parents who've lost a child through suicide or homicide through chronic illness.
And I think it's, the intention is to help normalize talking about grief and the pain there and yeah. And [00:19:00] so there, the book is going to be three different themes. So this first one is child loss. There's going to be one on general loss, which I'm also doing that chapter. And then I'm not, I don't remember what the third one is.
Erin: Okay. Okay.
Heather: But it's called stories of, yep. And it'll be coming out later this year. Awesome. Yeah.
Erin: Okay. And for the loved ones, you know, we were kind of talking about that earlier, how they may feel uncertain or unclear or even awkward on how to support the survivor. You know, let's say it's a husband and wife pair.
The husband passes away. Yeah. Right. So how can the loved ones support the widow? Like what are those action steps? What are those talking points?
Heather: Great question. Jen and I talk about this at the morning movement the circles of support. So when you think about your people, each person kind of has their own vibe, right?
And so you have the listener friend [00:20:00] who is just going to show up. sit with you, be with you. They're not going to try to fix rescue. They're just going to show up in that space and be with you. Then you have the respite friend. These are the distractor friends, the ones that can bring some levity or humor that will take you out to do something.
And then you have the doer friends who like, maybe they're that person that likes to have a project. To work on, to tackle. So thinking about those three roles in relation to how we can show up for our people during the holidays is important. So rather than waiting for the invitation, we need to just show up.
So if you're a doer type friend, like call up your, or send a text like, Hey, we just finished putting our Christmas lights up. I'd love to come put yours up on your house.
Erin: There we go.
Heather: Yeah. Hey, I am at, I'm at Costco getting some holiday treats. Can I pick up? What can I pick up for you? And bring it by after you have the respite friend, like, Hey we're going to do a Hallmark movie marathon and I'm [00:21:00] bringing ice cream or coffee and snacks and we're just going to binge on the couch and be ridiculous and mock the Hallmark movies.
Nope. No shade to Hallmark movies. But again, just thinking of, right. Or like, Hey, I'm bringing coffee. I'll be at your house in 15 minutes. We're going to go for a walk. So just showing up. And then the listener friend, like, Hey I'm going to come bring dinner and I'm just going to hang out and help with bedtime.
Erin: Okay.
Heather: You know, like it and then if you want to talk afterwards, great. If you don't want to talk, that's fine. I can head out, but I just want to be, I'm just going to be at your house.
Erin: Right. Yeah. Okay. Good. Because what people seem to, I guess, forget is the best way I can put it is they don't have to do much.
Really, if you are that listener friend, that can be just as valuable as the friend who brings coffee. Yes,
Heather: absolutely. [00:22:00] Or the friend that
Erin: lights. I mean, you don't, just listening or just being present. Yes.
Heather: Cause grief isn't something that we need to fix. It's not going to go away where we're acutely aware of it and you're not going to make us more upset by talking about it.
We want people to remember our person's name. We want people to ask us questions and talk about it. Maybe not all the time, but there are times where we want to have that space to share. And if you're expecting us to reach out, especially during the holidays, we don't want to be a burden. So we're sending a text like, Hey, let me know how I can support you.
Okay. Well, I'm not going to message you because I'm going to already assume that you're busy and have all your other holiday plans and expectations. So almost like inviting yourself into that space.
Erin: You're talking about the grieving person is like they don't want to bother the other folks. Yes. Yeah totally see that.
Heather: And you know, the, that's a, it's a well meaning text. Like, you know, [00:23:00] I'm thinking of you, let me know how I can support you. It's like, I don't know. I don't know how I need support. I'm overwhelmed by my grief and this pressure externally could be in a celebratory mood. So I don't know what I need. So I need friends and support people who are just going to show up.
And walk with me through this.
Erin: Yeah, I see that too. Like with the decision making fatigue, you don't want to make any decisions. I mean, having an open ended question like that, like, let me know how I can support you here. Like I can hardly get out of bed, right? You know, you want to put on my slippers so I can walk all cozy in the house.
Like, I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. So, it, I don't know, this is kind of coming full circle for me. Yeah. For a second, because if we're faced with too many decisions, we just shut down and especially when you're grieving. And if you've got OCD on top of that, it's like, whew, yeah, a whole lot.
Heather: Well, and when you think [00:24:00] about grieving, there's, especially if it's an, or if it's a recent loss, you've had to make so many big decisions because of an event you didn't choose.
And so, and then with grief, there's, there is executive dysfunction that happens because we're in a brain fog, we're overwhelmed, our brain landscape is changing. Mary Frances Oliver wrote a book, The Grieving Brain, and talks about how when you're in that bereavement space, literally your brain is Rewiring itself.
The landscape is changing. And and I think we need to remember that, especially with the holidays, that decision fatigue is so real. So I don't know what I need. I've been making huge decisions that I didn't want to have to make. And now I'm here and I just feel frozen. I just want to be a burrito on the couch.
And I know I want to do other things, but I don't know what I want.
Erin: Right. So your friends could even offer, Hey, do you want me to put out some decorations for you? [00:25:00] Hey, do you want me to pick up your mail?
Heather: Or I would, or even frame it maybe a little differently. Not like, do you want me to, cause that's still making a decision.
Like, Hey I'm in a decorative mood. Would it be helpful to decorate your house or are like, are you wanting to, cause I'd love to come decorate your house. And if you don't want a festive house this year, just let me know.
Erin: So would it be helpful?
Heather: Yes. Yes.
Erin: Okay. So then it's less about what they want more about how your friend can be helpful.
Yeah. Okay. And so Heather, in kind of wrapping things up, what would be a message of hope or encouragement that you would like to share with the listeners about how they can navigate or manage this holiday season if they're feeling overwhelmed by grief?
Heather: Yeah. You know, I think it's important to remember that the [00:26:00] holidays are just a season.
They're just a moment. It's not. Going to feel quite this overwhelming all the time. Again, grief. It doesn't go away. It just gets different. And so knowing that the holidays in and of itself are overwhelming, and it's kind of doubling down on that when you're also actively grieving, knowing that, okay, this is a really hard moment.
This is a really overwhelming moment and it is going to end. It is going to change. It's going to look different. The holidays, we will move through them. And how, like make sure I take care of myself while I'm in that in between so that I can. Figure out what, okay, who am I now in January because that's going to change as well.
So I think just validating and normalizing that the holidays can be hard and it's not going to be hard forever. It's just going to look different. And it's okay to make choices that make sense for you. You don't have to justify [00:27:00] your holiday decisions to anyone else.
Erin: Oh, love that. You don't have to justify yourself to anybody.
Heather: Nope.
Erin: Love it.
Heather: And you know, I think that's one of the cool things about grief is it kind of, it cuts away all the BS. It really leaves us. It's raw and almost our most authentic selves because it's like, I'm just feeling. And it helps us feel more empowered to maybe name what we really need without worrying about tiptoeing around other people's feelings or their own expectations or their shoulds for us.
Like what they should be doing. And so I think.
Erin: Awesome. Yeah. And Heather, how can the listeners connect with you? Do you have any other exciting things going on?
Heather: You know, I am on social media. You can follow along at grief is the new normal [00:28:00] or at the morning movements. And morning M O U R N I N G.
Not like am . . So my website's up. You can connect with me through there. Yeah, and then I have my podcast which is available on all major platforms.
Erin: Okay. Now weren't you mentioning that you have a live free webinar coming up?
Heather: Yes. Oh my gosh. Thank you. So with my business partner, Jen over at the morning movement we know how hard grief can be, especially during the holidays. And so we have some free webinars coming up in June. In anticipation of the holiday season. So there'll be educational for the everyday griever about how do we navigate grief in the holidays?
And those announcements will come on social media in the next month or so.
Erin: Okay.
Erin: And will these be over zoom?
Heather: Yes they'll be virtual. Yeah. So you can attend from anywhere. Okay. We'll also be doing some in person ones, but we're in the Washington, we're in Washington state.
So [00:29:00] if you are local to the Tacoma Seattle Gig Harbor area, we'll be doing some in person workshops as well, and hoping for fingers crossed, a grief retreat in January after the holidays to help us work on being in a better, more restored space as we move into the new year.
Erin: Wow. Awesome. Well, again, Heather, for being here today.
Really appreciate your time and expertise and. Yeah, just appreciate this conversation on changing how we view grief and how we can talk about grief and just the whole community, how we can start to come around people more so and to, because we all want to be helpful. So I feel like this was another conversation to help get us closer to that for us all to be helpful and to support those that are grieving.
So thank you.
Heather: Well, thank you, Erin, for having me back. It was fun to be back again. Yes.
We're partnering with NoCD to raise awareness [00:30:00] about OCD. OCD is more than what you see on TV and in the movies. Imagine having unwanted thoughts about your relationship stuck in your head all day, no matter how hard you try to make them go away. That's Relationship OCD. It comes with unrelenting, intrusive images, thoughts, and urges about your partner or loved one.
Breaking the OCD cycle takes effective treatment. Go to nocd. com to get evidence based treatment.
Erin: In summary, be kind to yourself during this holiday season. And if you are struggling with relationship worries, I've designed a 12 week group coaching program to help you get untangled from the worries and step into a place where you can fully experience the deep love that you deserve.
. Your relationship Worries could be taking the form of, have I found the one, what if I cheat on [00:31:00] my partner, what if we're not meant to be, or what if I fall out of sexual attraction. To my partner down the road. Those questions can feel very troubling and stressful.
So I totally get it. And that's why I've created this group to give you not only the skills and the strategies, but also the support network to help you through these feelings.
You deserve to get the true fulfillment from the love of your life. In order to join that group, there is a wait list and you guys will be getting special pricing because you're going to be part of the first round of this group. And I'm so excited. It's going to be launching in January of 2025.
To join the group, go to my website at value driven therapy. com. Click on the tab that says work with Aaron and go to the obsessed list. Love more.
This is an opportunity
to help you fully enjoy your relationship without all of the second [00:32:00] guessing
Come back next week where you're going to be hearing the story behind two sisters who have OCD. Really loved their story because you won't believe what they did with their OCD. Not only did they beat it, but they did something really spectacular.
Having all of these guests on the show has been really special.
And I've already noticed the five star reviews coming in. Keep them coming. I love it because . The more reviews I get for the show, the higher it shows up on search results, the more people I can reach and help and thank you for being a part of this mission.
Because obviously every vote makes a difference. Okay. Take care. See you next Friday. Bye. [00:33:00]
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